Mouse wheel next image?

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView MP

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coffin
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Mouse wheel next image?

Post by coffin » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:12 pm

Hey Pierre,

Thanks for the new .1 version, works great on my Mac OSX 10.5
Is there anyway in this version to have the mouse wheel go to next image rather than zoom?
Its just to know if I've missed something, no rush :)

Thanks again for a great software,

Coffin

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Dreamer
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Post by Dreamer » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:52 pm

Yes, this is very important. :)
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thibaud
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Post by thibaud » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:16 am

YES !

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oops66
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Post by oops66 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:24 am

As option, YES
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maxim_k
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Post by maxim_k » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:58 am

Only as option! Because zooming with mouse wheel is very useful (I think not only for me)

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Clo
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And "none"

Post by Clo » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:03 pm

:arrow: maxim_k

:) Hello !

• I think also that the mouse wheel using must be totally defined with all options, including a "None" choice.
- I use it for scrolling only, next image and zooming are exasperating in my workflow… :P

:mrgreen: KR
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Post by Dreamer » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:33 pm

maxim_k wrote:Only as option! Because zooming with mouse wheel is very useful (I think not only for me)
Of course, as option.

BTW also mouse shortcuts are important, to be able to go to the next image AND zoom with mouse only (wheel to switch images, right button+wheel to zoom).
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thibaud
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Post by thibaud » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:28 am

Of course as an option...
As long as I can assign "my own" (the rest of the world actually) hotkeys to common actions.

Sometimes, it's good to get out and look at what the majority of imaging software use as default in the industry.
I believe it can't be a bad thing to encourage some convergence in that area.

about 9/10 of the application I use rely (by default) on:
mouse wheel = next-prev (where appropriate).
ctrl+wheel = zoom.

And to make my point I've done a quick test with the direct xnview "competitors" I know :
picasa 3 (darn fast viewer btw),
irfan view 4.2,
faststone image viewer 3.6,
acdsee 2.5 pro,
adobe lightroom 2.0,
and guess what... they All (yes All of them!) use:
mouse wheel = next-prev.
ctrl + wheel = zoom. (just not lightroom for this one)

did I miss anyone worth it ? I'm pretty confident that the list could go on... with the same result.

So my question is more like: what does make xnview so special that it does not care about common trends, and (in the end) users workflow ?

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:33 pm

Sure enough XnView must follow standards. As you have investigated, for most browsers wheel mouse navigates through images. If one would perform the same investigation for graphic tools, one would find that wheel mouse very often controls zooming of images.

So both zooming and navigating could be a "right" choice for XnView. The question is: What would the user expect? What supports the user best? Is the mouse wheel control fine enough to navigate through pictures or will it jump over pictures and miss them out? Not easy to say.

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oops66
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Post by oops66 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:01 pm

helmut wrote:Sure enough XnView must follow standards...
I am not fully agree (if it is not as option) because I (and some others users) often like using during the "Quick Slide Show mode" for example, the mouse scrolling to zooming in or out (and I do not want to use Ctrl+mouse scroll instead, less useful).
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thibaud
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Post by thibaud » Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:23 pm

So both zooming and navigating could be a "right" choice for XnView. The question is: What would the user expect?
I though my little "investigation" made the point enough.
All similar application leave no doubt as which is the default keyboard and mouse behavior they are sharing.

from my experience as a technical director in the CGI industry, I would say this is a widely adopted standard by many other applications. (ctrl+wheel for zoom being indeed very common).
I'm also pretty confident that a vast majority of users would expect that behaviour (now, the 20 poor people hanging on this forum - as seen in the Responsiveness test - might not represent that majority perfectly)

In the end, I can only advice Pierre to follow that standard.
but naturally, allowing people to choose their own (including mouse btn) shortcuts through settings > interface > shortcuts would be a very appreciated first step in the right direction.

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helmut
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Post by helmut » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:23 am

thibaud wrote:from my experience as a technical director in the CGI industry... ... now, the 20 poor people hanging on this forum...
Be careful what you say, Mr. Director. All those poor people helped a lot to make XnView what it is today. Standard is good and should be applied if possible, but sometimes it's essential and important not to brainlessly follow standards. Tell good reasons and pros & cons here and people will listen.

As written in my previous post, depending on the settings there can be the problem of skipping images when using the mouse wheel for navigation. So the mouse wheel is not really ideal for navigating.

If I remember correctly we had the mouse wheel for navigating some years and major versions ago and have decided to change it. Perhaps someone could gather the discussions we had regarding the mouse wheel here in this forum.
Last edited by helmut on Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ouistiti
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Post by ouistiti » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:32 am

:arrow: thibaud
You said :
I'm also pretty confident that a vast majority of users would expect that behaviour (now, the 20 poor people hanging on this forum - as seen in the Responsiveness test - might not represent that majority perfectly)
I answer :
Each time you are side of the majority, it is time to make a pause and to reflect. [ Twain Mark ]
More : I think that your comment about "the 20 poor people hanging on this forum" is very insulting for this community !

You speak about "STANDARD", but when I go to your rich personnal webpage, I don't see any trace of standard, only orignalities...

As long as to stick to the "standards", why doesn't support it for example the logical use of binary units of size in conformity? It is however an official standard !

Please, let us love XnView for its differences !

Paul
L'important n'est pas de convaincre, mais de donner à réfléchir.
The important thing is not to convince, but to incite to think.

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thibaud
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Post by thibaud » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:09 am

Please accept my apologies for the little misunderstanding we have here (English is definitively not my first language, but self-derision certainly is!)
In case you didn't notice I'm myself part of that "20 poor users" and it's not the user that I though was poor, it's the number.

yet, I don't understand what the argue is all about..

I'm begging Pierre to allow people to customize their own shortcuts with xnviewMP - at the moment all users are stuck with the same (dare I say "unexpected") ones.

and I'm also expressing my belief that xnviewMP will only gain more sympathy (with an opened to the world attitude) by using what appears to be standard in the industry as default.

in the end, If users are allowed to customize the shortcuts (which I'm confident will certainly be implemented in due time in xnviewMP)I will be happy.
there can be the problem of skipping images when using the mouse wheel for navigation. So the mouse wheel is not really ideal for navigating.
if problem there is, all xnview "concurrent" apparently took the time to solve it since they all use the mouse wheel for navigation. I also never had such issues with any application using the wheel for navigation.
though, interestingly I do have some serious skipping issues with xnviewMP already.
Last edited by thibaud on Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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oops66
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One of the 20 poor people hanging on this forum

Post by oops66 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:31 am

thibaud wrote:... (now, the 20 poor people hanging on this forum ... might not represent that majority perfectly)...
About your technical argument for a standardization, I agree if as option (already said above), it deserves reflection, as Ouistiti said too, but about your argument "the 20 poor people hanging on this forum..." this is at least, not very subtle in human terms anyway.
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