[Discussion] How to change the system of languages ?

[Clo]

Ego Sun

Hello !
Pierre wrote :

Perhaps my english translation is not so good…

You wrote :

Menus are mainly OK, but the options dialog…

• Most certainly, this is not my business, but you are not wrong… Personally, I would use other terms, although I'm not a native English speaker, and other layouts at many locations…

Just ask Pierre. DLL and text file are very different things. …

- I know this for a while… I've a friend programmer with who I work for ages… But I wrote “To load”, not “To run”. Indeed, with text-files, the program needs to reread the file continually up to the right ID. But - like Xyzzy points out above, that no longer does matter with the machines we have nowadays.
- XnView began on 1991, imagine what the PCs were at this time… The first version of XnView I used was on a 386 @ 16 MHz - 4 MB RAM… With the “wonderful” M$ indispensable API Win32S

- Currently, it's impossible to see any running speed difference on the screen, using DLLs or text-files.

…I'm already doing that with resource editor. …

- I do the same, and there is not any other way… Recently, Pierre has corrected a lot the French DLL, from changes I got editing the resources. But that causes time wasting and problems… And it's to remake for each new version, think to seven RCs, like we had…

Sorry, this is translators' hard job.

- Sorry too, except for some eventual (rare) masochists, translations must stay a pleasant job / hobby -made for free-, and not a hard fatigue. This is my own point of view.
- Working with DLLs is not attractive at all. Like you can see in that section and also here, no many candidates rush on these requests
Anecdote : yesterday, I had a tiny row with a friend on Total Commander forum; he's the excellent Danish translator for a very long while; solving the issue via email, he told me that he has neither any un-UPX nor a resource editor @ home, and even he didn't think to use such a way !

And the last word: DLLs are good but text files are more flexible…

- Absolutely, much more flexible. Globally, this could lighten the Pierre's tasks, so that could free more time for the pure programming !
- Of course, that needs a big effort first, but quickly recovered …
- Finally, all writers here wish a stand-alone English DLL. A good thing, but not enough, though.

Kind regards,
Claude
Clo
“The light springs up from the discussion” (French proverb)

[Xyzzy]

Any update on this topic?

X.

[Clo]

Xyzzy

Hello !

- You got my thoughts ! I planned to propose some small files first as a start, for instance a text-file to translate easily all the EXIF-features on the list; Pierre told recently that he's thinking to a special window for that function in a next version…
- Currently, the list is always in English, and hard-coded in the EXE;
so, even editing the resources, it's impossible to translate it…

- Also, I / we would be happy to get some words from our Dear Author, directly about the topic…

Kind regards,
Claude
Clo

[Xyzzy]

Hmm, EXIF tags are somewhere in menu resources, I translated such gems as "Primary chromaticities" or "YCbCr-Coefficients", but file properties still display English strings- they are displayed from exe, not from language DLL.

A propos, there is a nice tool for translating software called Passolo (http://www.passolo.com/en/features.htm), specifically suited for translating, among others, .exes. It's free for translators, but Professional version (for managing translations) is steep 1000 euros

X.

[karin]

Ego Sun

Sorry, this is translators' hard job.

Clo's answer:

- Sorry too, except for some eventual (rare) masochists, translations must stay a pleasant job / hobby -made for free-, and not a hard fatigue. This is my own point of view.

And I would like to reply that I have the same opinion as Clo: a standalone english dll would be a good think but should be considered as the first step in progressing to make translations easier.

The most translations I had to do for programers were in text-files and this is more pleasant to manage and with less risk of errors.
Considering the translator has to compose with difficulties is in my eyes a mistake.
The person who is writing programs will have much more succes if good translations are available. And this can only be obtained if even simple users having no great experience with complexed editors can contribute. Changing to text-files would allow to find more volunteers.

Curious to see what the future will bring to us.

Regards
Karin

[Clo]

Xyzzy

Hello !

Hmm, EXIF tags are somewhere in menu resources, I translated such gems…

- I translated too these strings alright for the menu, and like you say, they aren't used in the “Info / Properties” sheet till now…
- Since it seems that a special page'll be added in the future 1.80.2, I requested translatable strings again (just a link to here) there.

Kind regards,
Claude
Clo

[Clo]

Karin

Hello !

…The most translations I had to do for programmers were in text-files and this is more pleasant to manage and with less risk of errors. …

• This is sweet to hear Several experienced users think so in that thread, but we are only missing the Author's thoughts till today…

…Considering the translator has to compose with difficulties is in my eyes a mistake. …

• Absolutely ! It's obvious that all languages can't fit in the same rooms than English, and worse, I saw in some programmes English strings which don't fit in their corresponding controls (too narrow…) !
- To translate in tiny rooms binds to use the shortest abbreviations, then the text becomes unclear, even a real gibberish
- It's the reason for which I advised above to use the (long) French / Polish or German strings to define the widths of the controls as a template…

Thank you very much for you support !

Best regards,
Claude
Clo

[Clo]

Hello All !

• Now, we are testing the 1.82 RC2, and the translation-thing has advanced by some “ant steps", but already important :

1. The EXIF info can be localized from a text file placed in the <Languages> sub-directory. Most certainly, the used style for that file is far to be that I would wish (not any decimal marking off), but - at least in French - we have an extra commented decimal marking off, this helps to find a string…

2. Ahhhh ! Finally, Pierre has set MS Shell Dlg as the font in the language-DLLs ! This allows the use of all ANSI extended characters, it's really a nice progress, thanks ! Under NTFS systems, the default for that font is Microsoft Sans Serif which contains all needed characters…
- Under Win 9x systems, this can be set in <Windows> >> <Win.ini> under [FontSubstitutes] like for example :

Code: Select all

[FontSubstitutes]
MS Shell Dlg=Arial

Well, stay tuned ! Since now the "DeLuxe" version is dead, maybe Pierre'll find some time to begin a full text-files switching ?

Kind regards,
Claude
Clo

[Xyzzy]

Maybe a solution is to use a bulti-in DLL compiler:

Plain text language files are compiled into language DLL when language is changed.
Of course I don't think about full-fledged compiler, but rather some kind of generator.

X.

[Clo]

Xyzzy

Hello L. !

- Some programmes provide such a stuff, either for DLLs or for twisted owners' text formats - in that case, as a kind of simplified spreadsheet, which provides so good results, but is a pain in the neck to use -.

- A long while ago, I requested a tool to Pierre in order to decompile ¦ recompile the language DLLs, in order to make additions ¦ correction in them… He refused curtly…
- So, by now, I would prefer to wait still for simple text files, rather than a temporary solution that should not satisfy all translators, and especially advanced users wishing to customize a bit their languages files…

Kind regards,
Claude
Clo
{ Aside : Maybe have you some new “delicious” English DLL ? It's very useful for me to make screenies for the forum and my Manuals ! I can patch it to get smaller pics… }

[Xyzzy]

I think you didn't understand me.
From translator/user point of view, there are nothing else than text files. You translate them, change as you will.

Simply, when language is changed, XnView could generate the DLL and use it. This way we have both text files as language resources and DLL as actual file that application uses. If you want to change translation, you need just to change text file and delete existing DLL (or set language again in Options).

I'll make English DLL whan I have some time (hopefully soon).

X.

[Clo]

Sounds interesting like you explain, but I fear that a built-in tool adds fat too much to the programme EXE ?

- So, could be a separate EXE as well, some applications are made such as - in example : DemoStudio -, with tools linked to the main programme, but as separate EXEs…

I'll make English DLL when I have some time (hopefully soon).

Great ! Thanks ! It should be nice too that Pierre assigns a “legal” suffix for it,
so it could be reset automatically across the sessions…

KR
Claude
Clo

[Xyzzy]

Futurix Imager supports translations nicely, details here:
http://www.fxfp.com/software/imager/download.php
(download SDK).

X.

[ckit]

Oh wonderful, Pierre will look forward to hearing that - NOT!

[Clo]

• Hello!

- I've installed that toy, but till that moment I don't see any built-in feature allowing to translate anything… I'd to download a DLL for French, and it's a real crap (I mean : the translation, of course)…

- I continue to look for, but nothing obvious as a tool on the site, except these DLLs to download… ?
EDIT : and a pretty mess with the second package… which uses ResourceHacker, so, quite useless, since I use it for a while, and it's simpler to edit directly and translate¦correct the released craps…

KR
Claude
Clo