Quick Search in Categories

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roadcone
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Hello, New User here. Getting on fairly well but would benefit from some guidance please.

I have set up some categories on a trial set of images. I a folder containing images of people on a walk in a location, some in snow and some not. And some are just of landscape. All images have the keywork of the Town. All of those with people have the keyword Walker and those with snow have the keyword Snow. All images therefore have one, two or three keywords. If I click on the category Town I see all images. If I use Quick Search and type in Walker I get a filtered set of all people. If it change that to Snow I get a smaller set of walkers in snow. This is behaving as I expect.

If I now click on the category Ramblers I get walkers from many locations (so far, so good). If I use Quick Search and type in Place1 then that works, as does Snow. If I type in Place2 or Place 3 then nothing is found. These are the categories exported from XnView (the actual places are under a main category called Places; the other three are categories at the same level as Places):

Places
arundel
battlefield
cardiff
chichester
dove valley
london

ramblers
snow
Other


In the above list, if I am in category walkers, I can quick search arundel but not battlefield or cardiff etc. I can also quick search by snow.

Similarly ... if I go into Folders (rather than Categories) - In arundel I can filter by ramblers but in each of the other places I cannot filter by ramblers.

Showing all selected images have ramblers keyword but they have one of three places.
1.png
With Arundel typed into Quick Search I get the images I expect (and some of them have snow).
2.png
With battlefield typed into Quick Search, nothing is found.
3.png
Can you offer me any advice please?

XnView MP Windows
Version 0.98.2 64bits (Feb 19 2021)
Libformat version 7.75
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xnview
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Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by xnview »

categories are saved in XMP metadata?
Pierre.
roadcone
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Thank you for your response.

The categories are present and when I click on a category the images are filtered. Not all images appear to have sidecar files created and this is something I was wondering about. But the XnView database appears to be correct.

Capture1
Images 1/5
Places=Arundel
Ramblers=Yes
Snow=Yes

Capture2
Images 6/8
Places=Arundel
Ramblers=Yes
Snow=No

Capture3
Images 9/29
Places=Battlefield
Ramblers=Yes
Snow=No

Capture4
Image 30
Places=Dove Valley
Ramblers=Yes
Snow=No

Capture5
No images selected
Typed arundel into quick search
Result=8 images

Capture6
No images selected
Typed snow into quick search
Result=No images

The Capture6 result also occurs when I type in battlefield or dove.

Capture7
Category Snow selected, showing it has 82 files. I have selected from the 82 the five Rambers Arundel files to demonstrate that they appear in the Category Snow. If I type either Snow or Rambler into the quick search then no images are shown.

Capture8
Category Battlefield selected, showing 30 files. The 23 images containing people can be seen plus 7 which contain only landscape (highlighted). If I type Rambler into the quick search then no images are shown.

Capture9
Shows the Quick Search settings.

I have tried the above exercise on another folder with exactly the same results.

If I select Folders and the request the contents to be displayed recursively, after only a short pause, they are all shown. If I type in any of the keywords then the results are No Images. If I type in a filename (most they are numbers) - as I start to type the displayed list starts to be filterd with the number reducing as the filename is completed. This is expected behaviour.
Attachments
Capture8.JPG
Capture7.JPG
Capture6.JPG
Capture5.JPG
Capture4.JPG
Capture3.JPG
Capture2.JPG
Capture1.JPG
roadcone
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Capture9.JPG
Capture9.JPG (29.75 KiB) Viewed 1191 times
I could not upload the final image, Capture9 - so here it is.
roadcone
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

OK - now making less sense. A group of categories that I added at the end of last week fail to quicksearch reliably (Arundel) or fail entirely (Battlefield, Dove Valley, Snow, Walkers). A large number that I added today quicksearch with no apparent problems (I have not actually counted the results to check that the finds are accurate, but they all appear to find something).
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xnview
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Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by xnview »

but where are stored the categories/keywords in the file? XMP? IPTC? Catalog only?
Pierre.
roadcone
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Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

I do not know how to check what is in your database. I have not knowingly told XnView to do or not do anything, apart from the settings I have shown you in previously uploaded Capture9. I added categories to XnView, selected the image then 'ticked' the appropriate categories in the Categories tab.

If I select an image and look in the Info tab then look under IPTC-IIM, XMP and ExifTool:

For Arundel with Ramblers and Snow (recall, these seem to be searching OK)
IPTC-IIM - Capture10
XMP - Capture11
ExifTool - Capture12

For Battlefield with Ramblers but no snow (these are not searching OK)
IPTC-IIM - the info tab does not exist
XMP - Capture13
ExifTool - Capture14 - but there is no IPTC shown in the list and I cannot find any keywords listed under XMP.

I seem unable to upload xmp files so I post the contents below:

Arundel, Ramblers, Snow:
<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="XMP Core 6.0.0">
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
<rdf:Description rdf:about=""
xmlns:Iptc4xmpExt="http://iptc.org/std/Iptc4xmpExt/2008-02-29/"
xmlns:MicrosoftPhoto="http://ns.microsoft.com/photo/1.0"
xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/"
xmlns:Iptc4xmpCore="http://iptc.org/std/Iptc4xmpCore/1.0/xmlns/"
xmlns:MicrosoftPhoto_1_="http://ns.microsoft.com/photo/1.0/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:lightroom="http://ns.adobe.com/lightroom/1.0/">
<Iptc4xmpExt:Creator>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li rdf:parseType="Resource"/>
</rdf:Bag>
</Iptc4xmpExt:Creator>
<MicrosoftPhoto:Rating>0</MicrosoftPhoto:Rating>
<xmp:CreatorTool>meDaGen 7.4</xmp:CreatorTool>
<xmp:Rating>0</xmp:Rating>
<Iptc4xmpCore:Keywords>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>arundel</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>ramblers</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>snow</rdf:li>
</rdf:Seq>
</Iptc4xmpCore:Keywords>
<MicrosoftPhoto_1_:Rating>0</MicrosoftPhoto_1_:Rating>
<dc:subject>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li>Arundel</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Ramblers</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Snow</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Walkers</rdf:li>
</rdf:Bag>
</dc:subject>
<lightroom:hierarchicalSubject>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li>Places|Arundel</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Ramblers</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Snow</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Walkers</rdf:li>
</rdf:Bag>
</lightroom:hierarchicalSubject>
</rdf:Description>
</rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>


Battlefield, Ramblers, NO Snow:
<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="XMP Core 6.0.0">
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
<rdf:Description rdf:about=""
xmlns:MicrosoftPhoto="http://ns.microsoft.com/photo/1.0"
xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/"
xmlns:MicrosoftPhoto_1_="http://ns.microsoft.com/photo/1.0/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:lightroom="http://ns.adobe.com/lightroom/1.0/">
<MicrosoftPhoto:Rating>0</MicrosoftPhoto:Rating>
<xmp:Rating>0</xmp:Rating>
<MicrosoftPhoto_1_:Rating>0</MicrosoftPhoto_1_:Rating>
<dc:subject>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li>Ramblers</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Battlefield</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Walkers</rdf:li>
</rdf:Bag>
</dc:subject>
<lightroom:hierarchicalSubject>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li>Ramblers</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Places|Battlefield</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>Walkers</rdf:li>
</rdf:Bag>
</lightroom:hierarchicalSubject>
</rdf:Description>
</rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>
Attachments
Capture14.JPG
Capture13.JPG
Capture12.JPG
Capture11.JPG
Capture10.JPG
Capture10.JPG (30.78 KiB) Viewed 1148 times
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xnview
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Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by xnview »

ok, so your keywords are in XMP metadata. Currently i have a problem to search in XMP...
Pierre.
roadcone
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Hello Pierre,

I have copied across a few hundred images to a folder structure to try out XnView. These are newly added keywords to try out your software (previously there were no keywords and I deleted all the xmp files). How is it that I have added some keywords into one place and some into another - what is it I am doing please? How do I add keywords and ensure they go into the place where you can search? And which place is that please?

I realise that I have not thanked you for all your patience and help - so thank you for both.

Kind regards

Clive
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xnview
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Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by xnview »

roadcone wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:18 pm I have copied across a few hundred images to a folder structure to try out XnView. These are newly added keywords to try out your software (previously there were no keywords and I deleted all the xmp files). How is it that I have added some keywords into one place and some into another - what is it I am doing please? How do I add keywords and ensure they go into the place where you can search? And which place is that please?
Currently 'quick search' works only with IPTC keywords (not yet XMP or catalog).
How do you add keywords? by clicking on them in categories pane? or by using 'Edit IPTC/XMP'?
Pierre.
roadcone
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Hello Pierre - so far _only_ by creating a category then selecting an image (or images) and clicking on a category (placing a tick in the empty box or occasionally, changing a square to a tick).

Just tried Ctrl+I Edit IPTC - must use ExifTool as it was very, very slow and I now have a load of _originals that I don't want.
elfroggio
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by elfroggio »

roadcone wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:52 pm Just tried Ctrl+I Edit IPTC - must use ExifTool as it was very, very slow and I now have a load of _originals that I don't want.
Let me pipe in:
  • IPTC data is modifying the original raw image after doing a backup as: xxx.ext_original
  • XMP data is written to the XMP sidecar
Syv
roadcone
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Thank you elfroggio / Syv - that is clear.

So ... XnView can't yet quick search IPTC but only XMP. To save data into XMP using Ctrl+I edits the original, does not add to sidecar and creates an additional (backup) file.

Can I write a keyword tag in a manner that does not create a backup copy but _is_ searchable buy XnView's quick search and, ideally, writes to a sidecar so that my RAW processing software can see it if necessary?

This is all new to me and it does seem quite complex. Not that the basic concept is complex, but what can and cannot be done, where it can be done and the consequences of doing different things. Thank you both for helping me.

Clive
elfroggio
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 9:13 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by elfroggio »

roadcone wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:33 pm Thank you elfroggio / Syv - that is clear.

So ... XnView can't yet quick search IPTC but only XMP. To save data into XMP using Ctrl+I edits the original, does not add to sidecar and creates an additional (backup) file.

Can I write a keyword tag in a manner that does not create a backup copy but _is_ searchable buy XnView's quick search and, ideally, writes to a sidecar so that my RAW processing software can see it if necessary?

This is all new to me and it does seem quite complex. Not that the basic concept is complex, but what can and cannot be done, where it can be done and the consequences of doing different things. Thank you both for helping me.

Clive
This is way beyond my pay grade. Michael038 helped me figure this out.

BTW, Almost nobody uses IPTC except for large news organizations. Large news/media organizations like IPTC because it's embedded in the files (Reuters and many other agencies require JPEG, not raw) and it is shared between news organizations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPTC_Info ... ange_Model) . Almost everybody else uses the XMP adobe standard.

Syv
roadcone
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:07 pm

Re: Quick Search in Categories

Post by roadcone »

Mmmm ... I don't _want_ to use IPTC - in fact, I don't care what is used other than I don't want to create copies of the RAW image just because I added a keyword and I'd rather be able to write to sidecars as that makes the data portable to other applications. Then, the main driver, is to be able to find, say, images of London, shot over many years, on many different cameras, located in many different folders, sometimes as jpegs (earlier days) and latterly as RAWs. Then some are daytime shots and some are night time shots. Then repeat that over a whole collection. My needs are by no means unique but the RAW processing software I use is incapable of searching a 40K collection in under seven minutes - each and every time.
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