IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties [Solved]

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JimP
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IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties [Solved]

Post by JimP »

I am using XnView to add information to a rather large collection of jpegs by using the IPTC fields. After trying out a coupIe of other software apps, I am finding out XnView works perfectly for my task and due to the way the software is designed, the workflow is optimal.

So far, I have labeled around 1200 jpegs, with many more to go. Using Windows 10, it is possible to hover over a jpeg and have a Title displayed; this would be the IPTC Description field. Also, when opening Properties/Details, some IPTC information (but not all) is also displayed. So far, so good.

Did some more IPTC labeling and then something changed. It was no longer possible to display the limited IPTC info either by hovering over the jpeg or by looking at Properties/Details.

I looked at some of my very first jepgs and they still displayed the IPTC info using Windows Explorer. Did some checking and found out the difference between the earlier jpegs and the newer jpegs is that XnView started using the internal jpeg thumbnails (the icon for this option was being displayed on the thumbnail).

My question: Do I need to change this XnView setting "Settings->Browser->Thumbnail uncheck "Use embedded thumbnail"" and redo my IPTC entry work, or continue using the embedded thumbnails? Not sure on this (don't want to lose any IPTC entries or have a future software compatibilty problem).

My instinct tells me not to worry about it, the IPTC fields are intact, even when using the embedded thumbs instead of the main jepg file. Has anyone experience the same behaviour or have similar concerns? Any information about this would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by JimP on Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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xnview
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by xnview »

could you send me a sample when it works and one that don't work?
Pierre.
JimP
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by JimP »

Yes I can. In the meantime, I believe I have found the reason why this is happening. The first group of jpegs were generated by an Epson 1200U scanner, the later jpegs were from a Somikon SD-1600 negative scanner. The jpegs from the Epson scanner did not have internal thumbnails (as far as I can see) whereas the Somikon generated jpegs do.

Epson_Scanner file: Works!
Somikon_file: Does not work.

Update: Link to both example files: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Last edited by JimP on Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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xnview
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by xnview »

and could you post screenshot of properties for these 2 files?
Pierre.
JimP
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by JimP »

I hope these are the properties you are talking about. I have also uploaded the Epson_Scanner file to Google Drive in the hopes that the properties stay intact and you can download both example files and check out the details directly.
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xnview
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by xnview »

Windows doesn't use IPTC metadata but XMP metadata. But it's strange because XMP metadata are correct for the 2 files, don't know why Windows can't....
Pierre.
JimP
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by JimP »

Thank you Pierre for taking the time to look into my issue, I appreciate your effort.

I did some retracking and the issue has nothing to do with the "use internal thumbs" option. I do believe it has to do with the files generated by the Epson scanner; the 1200U is not actually compatible with Windows 10 (the correct driver is not available) and I am using a workaround I found on the web. The jpeg files generated by the Epson 1200U scanner have no EXIF info; although digital cameras and generally flat-bed scanners usually do generate and save EXIF info within a jpeg.

I think it is probably time to consider purchasing a new scanner...

Why the Somikon-generated jpegs display this strange behaviour, who knows. I think it is a Windows issue, and as long as my IPTC entries stay intact and are readable now and in the future, no worries. I can view the IPTC info using other apps such as iTag, IrfanView64 and Gimp so I believe all is well. When I open a jepg (that I previously used XnView to enter some IPTC info into) using iTag, make a small modification in the description text and save, it is then possible view the description using Windows. Don't know why this is happening but I am not going to be concerned about it, it will all work out in the end, I am sure.
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michel038
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by michel038 »

Somertimes ExifTool can repair these files ...

For a test:

Select a picture > Tools, Change Timestamp ...
Check "Create Exif if needed" and "force update"
Choose a date
Enable the three Exif dates at the bottom and click OK

Try your workflow on this picture ?
JimP
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by JimP »

Thank you for your suggestion. ExifTool behaves a bit quirky on Windows 10, freeze-up ect.

[EDIT 06.11.2021] I was trying to use ExifTool installed as a separate program, and did not realize that it was already contained in XnView as an AddOn. I think this was the reason I was having occasional freeze-ups.

I have uploaded both original, untagged jpegs if you want to give it a try yourself. As I mentioned earlier, the Somikon-generated jpeg has intact EXIF metadata, and the Epson scanner jpeg does not. I suspect the Epson scanner/software (it is 20 years old!) does not have the capability to create EXIF metadata.

I will continue, in spite of this sudden strange behavour of Windows 10, to use XnView to label my jpegs. In the Drive link, in addition to the two "untouched" jepgs, there are the two jpegs I used XnView to tag; the Epson Scanner version displays the tagging using Windows Explorer, the Somikon does not.

Drive link to the four jpegs, tagged and untagged: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing
Last edited by JimP on Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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michel038
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties

Post by michel038 »

for some unknown reason, with this type of file, windows needs the iptc title (iptc:caption-abstract) to be repeated in exif (exif:ImageDescription)

So I created an "open with" feature in xnviewmp
tools>Open with>Configure programs ...
add> browse xnviewmp\AddOn folder and select exiftool.exe > ok
double click on the new entry to edit it's name and type Iptc2exif title
doubleclikc in the second column to edit parameters and add -k -m -F "-exif:imagedescription<iptc:caption-abstract"

then select a set of photos, right-click, open with, Iptc2exif title ... (ExifTool will copy iptc caption into exif description)
now Windows is able to show the title ...

exiftool creates an _original backup of photos
add -overwrite_original parameter to prevent this
JimP
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Re: IPTC information not always viewable in Windows/properties [Solved]

Post by JimP »

michel038,

Thank you for the solution! Very easy to use and works perfectly. I am seeing I can mark an entire group of jpegs and update them all at once which will make the task of updating over 1000 tagged jpegs an easy and enjoyable task.

Great job, thanks again!

EDIT: I did IPTC-labeling work on some other jpegs generated by a couple of different models of digital cameras. All of these jpegs displayed the tags correctly in Windows Explorer. This is leading me to believe the Somikon SD-1600 Negative Scanner is possibly generating a non-conform jpeg. Strange...