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IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:28 pm
by XnTom
Dear all,

I am more or less new here although using XnView for quite a while now already. Most of my issues I could figure out myself but now it seems like I need help.
I am using XnView MP primarily for organizing, tagging and personalizing of photos and graphics I create, not for processing them.

Here is what I try to do:

1. Select a group of photos/graphics in a directory
2. Allocating Categories to them by ticking the categories in the tree structure shown in the category window. The categories shall be stored inthe XnView datase as well as in the file itself as IPTC/XMP data
3. Edit file properties to add my name as creator/editor, source (sometimes) and a copyright note via contexct menu option " edit IPTC/XMP"

Up to item 2 of the above list everything works fine.
But if I try to do step 3 for multiple files I can't get it working.

If I select multiple files with categories already allocated and stored in the files as IPTC key words and XMP hierarchical subjects, then try to add information acc. to item 3 above, I end up with the files having lost the IPTC / XMP data afterwards and only the first of the selected files is getting the entries for the information that I tried to add via the edit IPTC/XMP option.

What I would expect is that
- I can allocate categories and get them stored as IPTC keyword / XMP hierarchical subject as described above,
- then select a group of files and edit their IPTC/XMP data, with afterwards
- having added creator/editor, source and copyright note for ALL selected files
- while the previously stored IPTC keyword / XMP hierarchical subject remaining stored in the files.

Could anybody out there tell me what I am doing incorrectly and/or how my workflow should look like to achieve the desired result ?
Or may be it is just a question of preference setting ?

Thanks in advance your your help. Any hint will be appreciated.

Regards

Thomas

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:04 pm
by michel038
My own way is to perform the third step first ...

I got the same problem
Add a check box "Dont modify keywords" in the "edit iptc/xmp" windows would be a fine solution ...

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:37 am
by Erixx haxx
Hello:

The only thing I can think of is maybe you don't have settings set right under: (Options tab), inside the batch process dialog.
XnViewMP v0.83  - 0003.jpg
Option Inside the edit dialog v0.83

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:51 am
by XnTom
michel038 wrote:My own way is to perform the third step first ...

I got the same problem
Add a check box "Dont modify keywords" in the "edit iptc/xmp" windows would be a fine solution ...
Thanks !

To be honest, I haven't checked the method of setting the creator / source / copyright first and THEN add the categories.
I checked it with my old settings and it works. It certainly would be a good workaround, I just have to get used to it.

But I think the other answer I got will help you as well, because i checked it out and it works fine.

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:09 am
by XnTom
Erixx haxx wrote: The only thing I can think of is maybe you don't have settings set right under: (Options tab), inside the batch process dialog.
I must admit that I never found my way to this option page on the very far right end of the dialogue :o
So, I changed the settings according to your screenshot, tried it and .... bingo :D
After having checked that these settings are global and permanent, my problem seems to be solved now.

The only thing that is left on my side is the feeling, that it might be a bit confusing to have this kind of setting hidden in this place.
What would you think about
- having these settings as global settings in the main preferences | meta data, because there are already other settings related to IPTC and XMP, and
- having the preference page you showed me to modify the default settings defined in the main preferences for just one use of the dialogue or a program session.

THANKS A LOT :)

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:27 pm
by michel038
I tried various options in this screen for several weeks, but found no solution.
When selecting photos having different keywords and categories , if I use iptc/xmp edit window and click "save all", then all photos will loose hierarchical keywords.
(Even if I select only one photo, hierarchical keywords will be deleted)
Then, Iptc and xmp keywords of the first photo are added to all others photos.
Categories seem corrrect, but I can't admit differences between categories displayed and xmp:lr:hierarchical keywords inside photos because I sometimes build a whole renewed database.

- I agree, "it might be a bit confusing to have this kind of setting hidden in this place"
In the classic version of Xnview, these option are always displayed at the bottom of the same iptc/xmp edit window
... and if you want to change an option, you must select more than 1 photo ...

- Now when I want to add "city" or "caption" or credits in large sets of photos containing hierarchical keywords, i use another tagging software (fastphototagger) ...

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:17 pm
by XnTom
The recommendation for the settings in the screenshot above have at least helped on my side, but I don't know if they work differently depending on other settings, e.g. in main preferences | meta data | XMP - IPTC.
The only thing that is still not working on my side is replacing a value. E.g.
- If I add a copyright note the first time, everything works o.k.
- If I want to modify an exisiting copyright note for multiple files, i.e. choosing another one in the dialogue or editing the existing one manually the old value remains.
If I do this for a single file it works

However, in case I have to update a field in multiple files, I can do in two steps. First delete the field content in the dialoge and press "Save all", then select or enter a new value and again press "Save all".

Here are my current settings, may be it helps.

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:14 pm
by Erixx haxx
Hi again, XnTom:
- If I want to modify an exisiting copyright note for multiple files, i.e. choosing another one in the dialogue or editing the existing one manually the old value remains.
--For this I think you need to uncheck the 3rd option. Also Note: You may need to change modes (Pull down) depending on is it to change iptc or xmp.

I believe these settings only effect edits done inside this dialog..

Also I agree These are very hidden and kind of a pain to mess with every time.
I Also feel the wording could be better for english.

Please see post below also.

Glad I helped..

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:55 pm
by Erixx haxx
Hi michel038:
When selecting photos having different keywords and categories , if I use iptc/xmp edit window and click "save all", then all photos will loose hierarchical keywords.
(Even if I select only one photo, hierarchical keywords will be deleted)
To do this I think its best to select a group of photos then use the CAT panel and ticks to keep tree like structure.
Also in the keywords section of the batch dialog box, you need to use a "parent/child" type format and i don't think this dialog does this very well. You might be able to use the history or maybe even get keywords filled in by selecting the (use db) pulldown, it will maybe keep them. I think this is a know downfall for this dialog.
Make sure to set:" Keep old if new empty" also, in the dialog options.

I think I agree. These option should be inside every tab, on the side or bottom. Also better wording and tooltips would help also.
Maybe you could make a suggestion for this. I would support it.

Re: IPTC/XMP Workflow support

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:53 am
by XnTom
Erixx haxx wrote: For this I think you need to uncheck the 3rd option. Also Note: You may need to change modes (Pull down) depending on is it to change iptc or xmp. I believe these settings only effect edits done inside this dialog.

Also I agree These are very hidden and kind of a pain to mess with every time. I Also feel the wording could be better for english.

Please see post below also.

Glad I helped..
Yes, I was already wondering about the difference between two of the options which seam to be the same but with swapped sequence for mentioning IPTC and XMP.
Currently I am under pressure with preparation of a job-related appointment but I will check the difference and add something to this thread if I find something out.

I certainly would support a suggestion for optimzing the handling of IPTC / XMP data as I find XnView(MP) to be such a magnificant tool and a I fully appreciate that getting the usability into a software after having implemented the functionality is one of the most challenging jobs to do, and being involved with concept design for MES solutions in the industry I know about the importance of getting heaps of options in a software driven process under one hat :)

Regarding the wording there are a couple of examples where the translation gets a bit weird, but If I look at the list of languages you can choose, I still think the development team has done and is doing a tremendeous job.
May be it is worth thinking about a kind of public glossary, where any user can tick terms that he/she thinks should be corrected in his language and make a proposal for a new translation including an explanation why to choose this particular term.
I am regularly confronted with translation issues in terms of technical terminology in norms and standards as well as sales documentation and even in this field it is so difficult to keep track of consistent, "language-synchronous" tranlations ...

Example I found:

One option in the Edit dialogue for XMP / IPTC is "Fotograf/Ersteller" in German, which could be translated as "Photographer / [Creator/Editor]" in English , but it is called "Byline" in the Dialogue and shown as "creator" in the XMP information window :?

Another thing I came across that may cause confusion in handling XMP / IPTC data:

In the XMP information window the data is structured by creating groups called e.g. "dc", "xmpMM" or "photoshop".
When I was changing language to provide the screenshots I posted in English I saw that the grouping can be different for the same file depending on the chosen language in which you run the program.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to check on that one in detail now but I will try again later ...

Bye for now