UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Ideas for improvements and requests for new features in XnView MP

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helmut
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UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by helmut » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:34 am

Currently, in image view mode the default toolbar is very empty. There are only few functions like zooming, grid, previous/next image, previous/next page, and some more.

XnView MP 0.39 offers more functionality than that, I think additional toolbar buttons like
- rotate
- cut
- roperties
- ...
should be also displayed by default. Ideally, the same icons as in XnView Windows are available by default.

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budz45
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by budz45 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:39 pm

helmut wrote: XnView MP 0.39 offers more functionality than that, I think additional toolbar buttons like
- rotate
- cut
- roperties
The "Properties" toolbar icon has been added in the development build. :D

Yes I agree "Crop" could be added to the default toolbar.

No I don't agree for adding the two "rotate" items to default toolbar.
helmut wrote: Ideally, the same icons as in XnView Windows are available by default.
No Helmut, please sorry, :) I beg to differ, let's keep the default toolbar of XnView MP as minimal please and not full up of default toolbar icons.
Subject: I like the minimalism (MP's Toolbar in Viewer)

This is why XnView MP offers users the ability to customize the toolbar with however much icons they want and with the new GUI drag & drop arrange feature in the Toolbar editor plus better handling of the ".bar" file - it is also much easier to backup toolbar layouts too.

Please understand.
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JohnFredC
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by JohnFredC » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:51 pm

I think the default toolbars should be well populated. This eases the user's effort to customize them (removing a button is 'way easier than adding one) and also informs the user (by example) of the functions available in the software, inviting the user to experiment.

In my experience users tend to explore functions presented on toolbars in preference (at least initially) to those hiding in (nested) menus...
John

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budz45
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by budz45 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:28 pm

JohnFredC wrote:I think the default toolbars should be well populated.
I still disagree....

Hmmmm how about an option to specify "Minimal toolbar set" or "Full toolbar set" in a 'Startup Wizard' - what do you think of that?
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helmut
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by helmut » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:49 pm

JohnFredC wrote:I think the default toolbars should be well populated. This eases the user's effort to customize them (removing a button is 'way easier than adding one) and also informs the user (by example) of the functions available in the software, inviting the user to experiment.

In my experience users tend to explore functions presented on toolbars in preference (at least initially) to those hiding in (nested) menus...
Right. Removing a toolbar button is really simpler and the way to go for those people who want/need less toolbar buttons.

If we all agree that a specific toolbar button should no longer be a default button, then it should be removed in both XnView Windows and the XnView MP. But I guess this discussion should not be in this thread but in a seperate thread in the XnView Windows forum.

@budz45:
I don't like options for few people (< 20% of users) if there is an easy way that has to be performed once to achieve the same result.

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budz45
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by budz45 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:16 pm

Irfanview's default toolbar is a good example of a minimal (but still customizable) toolbar.

In the current XnView 1.9x, a user would still have to resize the application window wide enough to see full set of icons....In other words "too busy on the eyes" toolbar icons.
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marsh
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by marsh » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:28 am

I think far seperation of any button involving a follow-up saving action would look less busy and better emphasize the common viewing functions.

Example with save button at rightmost:

Code: Select all

[x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x] [x]         |         [y] [y] [y]   |   [z]

x=viewing types
y=edit types
z=save
Perhaps two sets of buttons could be justified or held to positions relative to opposite edges of window for this effect.

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helmut
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by helmut » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:07 pm

I have the strong wish that XnView Windows and XnView MP should have a similar or very alike user interface and offer similar or very alike functionality. This includes the default settings and the default toolbar. This will help people to migrate from XnView Windows to XnView MP or vice versa.

If you want to have a toolbar with less buttons, I'd suggest to discuss this in the XnView Windows section. Already, there is topic "Usability: Toolbar consistent in all modes" suggesting the removal of some toolbar buttons. There, you can support and discuss the suggeted remove or suggest even more toolbar buttons for removal. But again: XnView is a product for many people, thus the user interface should fit for those many people, either by default or by customization. Default settings should allow for a simple and effective usage.

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budz45
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by budz45 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:39 am

helmut wrote: XnView MP 0.39 offers more functionality than that, I think additional toolbar buttons like
- rotate
- cut
- roperties
- ...
should be also displayed by default.
helmut wrote:I have the strong wish that XnView Windows and XnView MP should have a similar or very alike user interface and offer similar or very alike functionality. This includes the default settings and the default toolbar. This will help people to migrate from XnView Windows to XnView MP or vice versa.
Yes but I don't think the default toolbar of view mode should be full up of so many icons, that's all. It doesn't look good :D

This is current XnView 1.98.7 default view mode toolbar (too full of icons):
2012-03-03_002440.png
2012-03-03_002440.png (41.37 KiB) Viewed 2046 times
I reckon for MP it should be like this:
Image
(I have ordered each icon as best appropriately in this screenshot along with inclusive separators in places)

...Remember users have the great ability to "Customize Toolbar..." by right-clicking on the toolbar :P :P
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helmut
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by helmut » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:06 pm

Thanks for your drafts, budz45.
budz45 wrote:
helmut wrote: XnView MP 0.39 offers more functionality than that, I think additional toolbar buttons like
- rotate
- cut
- roperties
- ...
should be also displayed by default.
helmut wrote:I have the strong wish that XnView Windows and XnView MP should have a similar or very alike user interface and offer similar or very alike functionality. This includes the default settings and the default toolbar. This will help people to migrate from XnView Windows to XnView MP or vice versa.
Yes but I don't think the default toolbar of view mode should be full up of so many icons, that's all. It doesn't look good :D
I guess in the end we want the same thing: Less toolbar buttons in XnView Classic and more toolbar buttons in XnView MP. The difference is that you (budz45) just look at XnView MP and I look at both XnView Classic and XnView MP. One can discuss which icons should be available in XnView MP (your approach) or one can discuss which icons should be removed in XnView Classic, assuming that both XnView MP and XnView Classic offer the same user interface (my approach).

As mentioned in my very first post, XnView Classic and XnView MP should have a user interface that is as similar as possible, unless improvements in one or the other version have been made that cannot make it easily into the other version. If you want less buttons in XnView MP than in XnView Classic, you will have to argue why a specific button should be removed or changed in position.

Two examples:
- In your draft, button "Red eye correction" is missing (compared to XnView classic). Why do you want to remove red eye correction?
- In your draft, position of "Zoom" buttons have changed. Why?

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budz45
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Re: UI: Default toolbar in image view mode: More buttons

Post by budz45 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:15 pm

helmut wrote:The difference is that you (budz45) just look at XnView MP and I look at both XnView Classic and XnView MP.
Yes I am very fanatical about the XnView MP project :D
helmut wrote:As written in my first post, XnView Classic and XnView MP should have a user interface that is as similar as possible
helmut wrote:I guess in the end we want the same thing: Less toolbar buttons in XnView Classic and more toolbar buttons in XnView MP.
yes certainly, so that both 'MP' and 'Classic' have an exact same matching toolbar set :) ....So if 'MP' view mode toolbar has 19 or 20 toolbar icons all postioned with separators etc then 'Classic' XnView must emulate exact same too I believe....Yes you are correct in there being a topic about this in the forum for XnView 'Classic'/'Standard'.
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