Screenshot import

[Drahken]

I only use basic mode at startup because I CAN'T use viewer mode at startup. I do not want to use browser mode at startup, and the only other option is basic mode. Therefore, I use basic mode at startup only, simply because it's the lesser of 2 evils. If there was an option to start in viewer mode, I would always start in viewer mode.

Prefer: Viewer mode
Occaisionally use: browser mode
Wonder why it even exists: basic mode

[helmut]

I only use basic mode at startup because I CAN'T use viewer mode at startup. I do not want to use browser mode at startup, and the only other option is basic mode. Therefore, I use basic mode at startup only, simply because it's the lesser of 2 evils. If there was an option to start in viewer mode, I would always start in viewer mode.

Prefer: Viewer mode
Occaisionally use: browser mode
Wonder why it even exists: basic mode

Viewer mode will need an image for viewing, but an image will not be available if you start XnView. The first image in the current folder could be shown, but again, what happens if there is no image int that folder. So I'm not clear how you would expect this to work.

You can start XnView in viewer mode by double-clicking on an image. For this, you associate the file with XnView (Tools > Options > Associations). Make sure the setting "Options > General > Startup > Start View in Fullscreen" is deactivated. (I'm pretty sure you are aware of this, Drahken, this info is more for other readers).

[Lesmo16]

Helmut, why are you defending something really useless?
Because it's in Online Help? Or do you recognize a real goal in Basic mode?

IMHO we all should think of an elegant easy to implement solution, without that crap.

[helmut]

Helmut, why are you defending something really useless?

Lesmo, I think there are big misunderstandings, here. There's people around who actually use the basic mode. As written above, I cannot see how you would directly start in view mode.

Because it's in Online Help? Or do you recognize a real goal in Basic mode?

I have copied the online help since I had had the feeling that you still haven't read it and still do not understand what we are talking about and what basic mode is for. As long as you can close the last window opened in XnView (including browser) or start without any window opened, there will be a basic mode (or call it whatever you like). The point is that many actions will not work if there is neither a browser nor a an image displayed.

IMHO we all should think of an elegant easy to implement solution, without that crap.

Agreed, but as written above what is the solution? Any MDI application will have to handle the situation when no (child) window is opened.

[Lesmo16]

Helmut, why are you defending something really useless?

Lesmo, I think there are big misunderstandings, here. There's people around who actually use the basic mode. As written above, I cannot see how you would directly start in view mode.

Yes, they're forced to use it - but don't want to!

IMHO we all should think of an elegant easy to implement solution, without that crap.

Agreed, but as written above what is the solution? Any MDI application will have to handle the situation when no (child) window is opened.

Yes, that's right. Although it's no problem for an application with only one job to do. An editor to edit text files, a paint program for bitmaps, and so on.

But in xnView there are 2 jobs in one application:
- a Browser to navigate and preview images - does it make sense to close the last active window?
- a Viewer to view and work on images - does it make sense to close the last active window?

So if it doesn't make sense for one of the two different modes, why do we need it for the whole application?

We have to discuss the Viewer Startup behaviour, that's right - and I'm sure we'll find a solution!

[Drahken]

Helmut- What's so confusing? Xnview should simply start up with the same menus, toolbars, etc as it has when you're viewing an image. Most other image viewers/editors work this way (and the ones that don't completely work this way, still don't change the toolbar).
If there is no image open, then the image based functions in the meus are disabled, but they remain in the same positions and none disappear. Look at uniview, irfanview, image analyzer, or photo filtre (just to name a few). Look at them without an open image, look at them with an open image. Aside from some menu items being greyed out/disabled, you won't see any difference.

You can start XnView in viewer mode by double-clicking on an image.

No offense, but that was a dumb statement. I don't want to launch an image when I open xnview. Not only would that be pointless most of the time (since I'm not working on an existing image), it is also much more of a pain to go into your folders and hop around looking for the image you want than it is to simply fire up a program, especially if the image you want is in the same directory as the last image you opened.
Most of the time, I either fire up xnview and paste the clipboard, or open an image in the same folder (or near the same folder) as the last one I opened. In both cases, going through the hassle of navigating to and then clicking on an image just to launch the program would be beyond pointless.


I don't know why the basic vs viewer mode thing bugs me so much, it's just that things which make no sense really get under my skin.
Now, some might argue that basic mode is good for when you want to aquire an image from a camera or scanner, but as soon as you open the first image, it switches to viewer mode and you lose that advantage. Additionally, all the things in the basic mode toolbar can easily be added to the viewer mode one, thereby making it just as easy to aquire an image from viewer mode as from basic mode.


If basic mode can't be done away with, I think there should at least be an option to launch the viewer at startup the same way you can choose to always launch the browser at startup.

[helmut]

Note:
Below I will continue using the term "Basic mode" in the meaning of "XnView main window with no browser or image view open".

Helmut- What's so confusing? Xnview should simply start up with the same menus, toolbars, etc as it has when you're viewing an image. Most other image viewers/editors work this way (and the ones that don't completely work this way, still don't change the toolbar).
If there is no image open, then the image based functions in the meus are disabled, but they remain in the same positions and none disappear. Look at uniview, irfanview, image analyzer, or photo filtre (just to name a few). Look at them without an open image, look at them with an open image. Aside from some menu items being greyed out/disabled, you won't see any difference.

I understand. Your message is simply: "Menus of Basic mode and View mode should become the same".

The menus of Basic mode could also be made similar to browser mode (and not view mode), but those people who use the browser will never see the basic mode, anyway. So there's a need to make menus of basic mode and view mode consistent, but not basic mode and browser - right?

You can start XnView in viewer mode by double-clicking on an image.

No offense, but that was a dumb statement. I don't want to launch an image when I open xnview. Not only would that be pointless most of the time (since I'm not working on an existing image), it is also much more of a pain to go into your folders and hop around looking for the image you want than it is to simply fire up a program, especially if the image you want is in the same directory as the last image you opened.

Most of the time, I either fire up xnview and paste the clipboard, or open an image in the same folder (or near the same folder) as the last one I opened. In both cases, going through the hassle of navigating to and then clicking on an image just to launch the program would be beyond pointless.

For someone who uses browser all the time it's hard to understand how people could work without it at all. For me this is new terrain, so please bear with my dumb questions and notes, simply holler.

I don't know why the basic vs viewer mode thing bugs me so much, it's just that things which make no sense really get under my skin.
Now, some might argue that basic mode is good for when you want to aquire an image from a camera or scanner, but as soon as you open the first image, it switches to viewer mode and you lose that advantage.
Additionally, all the things in the basic mode toolbar can easily be added to the viewer mode one, thereby making it just as easy to aquire an image from viewer mode as from basic mode.

I understand. But from what I can see, acquiring an image can be done in all modes, including View mode, there's always "File > Acquire...".

If basic mode can't be done away with, I think there should at least be an option to launch the viewer at startup the same way you can choose to always launch the browser at startup.

When starting XnView without browser, there will always be the "Basic mode" in the meaning of special state: Menu items will be greyed out since various action do not make sense until an image is opened.
A main menu with all menu items greyed out does not make too much sense, I guess this is why "Edit" and other main menus have not been listed in the past. But I can see now that it might make some sense to change this (still to be discussed). I assume that it is no problem for Pierre to add the missing menus - as long as we tell him what is missing and what has to be changed.

[xnview]

I assume that it is no problem for Pierre to add the missing menus - as long as we tell him what is missing and what has to be changed.

Right